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* HYDROGEN CARS: Another Dumb Bush Pipe-Dream You Won't See In This Lifetime! -
2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos/t/d828db79c5802560?hl=en
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TOPIC: HYDROGEN CARS: Another Dumb Bush Pipe-Dream You Won't See In This
Lifetime!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos/t/d828db79c5802560?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 20 2009 6:15 pm
From: Dänk 1010011010
On Nov 17, 7:27 pm, Suppurating Tool <kink...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> H-car proponents state (in a mantra repeated so often that is accepted
> as gizmo gospel by many intelligent adults) that a fuel-cell vehicle's
> "only emission is water vapor." That is true, but only in a trivial
> and thoroughly misleading sense."
>
> -----------------
> ...
> Moreover, even if pollution-free hydrogen were available -- produced,
> say, by electrolysis using zero-emissions energy from wind turbines --
> you'd still need a way to move enormous amounts of it around the
> country the way gasoline is delivered now. That raises a whole new set
> of problems. Hydrogen has relatively low energy content per unit
> volume, about one-third that of natural gas or gasoline. So it would
> have to be tightly compressed, probably to thousands of pounds per
> square inch, all without leaks of the highly flammable stuff that
> could turn the corner "gas" station or family sedan into a mini-
> Hindenburg.
One possible solution to the hydrogen storage problem is to use
hydrocarbons, meaning the vehicle can use ordinary gasoline or natural
gas, using some kind of device to strip the hydrogen atoms off to be
fed into the fuel cells. In theory, the fuel cells are much more
efficient than internal combustion, meaning less gasoline would be
needed to transport the vehicle the same distance. Unfortunately, the
current cost of the necessary technologies are prohibitively
expensive.
This idea merits further study, since hydrogen produced from renewable
sources could be converted into synthetic hydrocarbons, making it
compatible with the current energy infrastructure. Assuming the
carbon comes from renewable sources like cellulose, the synthetic
gasoline would be carbon-neutral and not contribute to global warming.
> None of that is impossible. It's just stupendously difficult and
> probably pointless. That's why, for the foreseeable future, the
> hydrogen car will remain a tailpipe dream.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/16/AR200...
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 21 2009 8:17 am
From: Don Lancaster
Dänk 1010011010 wrote:
> In theory, the fuel cells are much more
> efficient than internal combustion, meaning less gasoline would be
> needed to transport the vehicle the same distance.
A "not even wrong" misconception.
At best, a fuel cell MIGHT eventually be SLIGHTLY or SOMEWHAT more
efficient than an ICE.
BUT --
Not one present fuel cell vehicle is remotely as efficient as an ICE.
Fuel cells have an 83 percent maximum theoretical efficiency. This gets
further reduced by inverter (85 percent), motor (90 percent) and wiring
(97 percent) efficiencies, leaving very little possible benefit over the
ICE.
Meanwhile, more people are spending more R&D on the ICE, so its
efficiency is dramatically improving. Perhaps at a one percent per year
rate. Fuel cells are presently falling further and further behind.
They are unlikely to ever catch up.
See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/nrglect2.pdf for more details.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
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