http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos?hl=en
Today's topics:
* Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense' - 13
messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos/t/360dc4f4d62b4736?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos/t/360dc4f4d62b4736?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 7:40 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net>
aemeijers wrote:
>
> On 3/3/2011 3:43 PM, Clive wrote:
> > In message <20110302131420@news.eternal-september.org>, Roger Blake
> > <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes
> >> I can assure you that I will be still doing fillups at gas stations
> >> and changing motor oil in 20 years. The installed base is far too large
> >> to simply go away in that period of time. (You of course may elect
> >> to purchase some stoopid electic pregnant roller skate to run around
> >> if you desire. Just don't try to force me into one.)
> > At the moment we're paying $9.91 for an imperial gallon. When you start
> > paying those prices, you might have a change of heart.
>
> No, if they tried charging prices that high here, we'd have a change of
> government. Most of that 9.91 is taxes, not fuel cost.
Are you aware that the US government is
driving the cost of labor up by taxing
it at the rate they do?
By not taxing workers wages heavily
and by providing national health care
European countries don't add as much to the cost of labor
that means manufacturing jobs tend to not migrate away
This is because of reduced labor costs
and increased transportation costs
The US government drives the cost of fuel down
by not taxing it heavily and using the tax from labor
to finance expensive foreign policy
to keep the price of fuel low
Some of the consequence of this is
that jobs migrate to other countries
and fuel is used wastefully
If instead of that taxation scheme
fuel was heavily taxed for government revenue
and labor was cheaper due to reduction
in payroll taxes and health insurance costs
Then
More of the goods that people buy locally
would be made by workers with local jobs
instead of workers half-way around the world
-jim
>
> --
> aem sends...
== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 4:27 am
From: "Stewart"
"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ikipsd$i8b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'
>
> David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
>
> Washington - Consumer Reports offered a harsh initial review of the
> Chevrolet Volt, questioning whether General Motors Co.'s flagship
> vehicle makes economic "sense."The extended-range plug-in electric
> vehicle is on the cover of the April issue - the influential
> magazine's annual survey of vehicles - but the GM vehicle comes in
> for criticism.
>
> "When you are looking at purely dollars and cents, it doesn't really
> make a lot of sense. The Volt isn't particularly efficient as an
> electric vehicle and it's not particularly good as a gas vehicle
> either in terms of fuel economy," said David Champion, the senior
> director of Consumer Reports auto testing center at a meeting with
> reporters here. "This is going to be a tough sell to the average
> consumer."
>
> The magazine said in its testing in Connecticut during a harsh
> winter, its Volt is getting 25 to 27 miles on electric power alone.
>
> GM spokesman Greg Martin noted that it's been an extremely harsh
> winter - and as a Volt driver he said he's getting 29-33 miles on
> electric range. But he noted that in more moderate recent weather,
> the range jumped to 40 miles on electric range or higher.
>
> Champion believes a hybrid, such as the Toyota Prius, may make more
> sense for some trips.
>
> "If you drive about 70 miles, a Prius will actually get you more
> miles per gallon than the Volt does," Champion said.
>
> But GM has noted that most Americans can avoid using gasoline for
> most regular commuting with the Volt, while its gasoline engine can
> allow the freedom to travel farther, if needed.
>
> The magazine has put about 2,500 miles on its Volt. It paid $48,700,
> including a $5,000 markup by a Chevy dealer.
>
> Champion noted the Volt is about twice as expensive as a Prius.
>
> He was said the five hour time to recharge the Volt was "annoying"
> and was also critical of the power of the Volt heating system.
>
> "You have seat heaters, which keep your body warm, but your feet get
> cold and your hands get cold," Champion said.
>
> Consumer Reports will release a full road test of the Volt later
> this year and will update it.
>
> Champion praised the heater on the all-electric Nissan Leaf - which
> Consumer Reports borrowed from the Japanese automaker -- but said it
> also got very short ranges in very cold weather.
>
> On one commute, his range in a Leaf was at 43 miles when he turned
> onto an eight-mile stretch of highway, but it fell from 43 to 16
> miles after eight miles at 70 mph.
>
> "If it keeps on going down at this rate, will I get to work,"
> Champion said.
>
> Champion said in an interview he thinks the Volt "will sell the
> quantity that they want to sell to the people that really want it."
>
> Despite his criticism of the Volt, Champion praised its acceleration
> and acknowledged that under certain driving cycles, consumers could
> mostly avoid using gasoline. The magazine noted the Volt is nicely
> equipped and has a "taut yet supple ride."
>
> But he said there are a lot of trade-offs.
>
> "They are going to live with the compromises the vehicle delivers,"
> Champion said. "When you look at it from a purely logical point of
> view, it doesn't make an awful lot of sense."
>
> Before Consumer Reports decides whether to recommend the Volt, it
> needs data from at least 100 subscribers who own one, and a year of
> reliability data.
>
> dshepardson@detnews.com
>
> From The Detroit News:
> http://detnews.com/article/20110228/AUTO01/102280401/Consumer-Reports--GM's-Volt-'doesn't-really-make-a-lot-of-sense'
>
The cost of electricity in CT is hovering around $0.25 a KWH, so cost
savings is virtually nil for this vehicle. Add to that that 50% of
electrical generation in this country is generated through burning
coal, the carbon footprint savings are marginal, at best. A hybrid
makes much more sense.
== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 4:35 am
From: "Stewart"
"dsi1" <dsi1@usenet-news.net> wrote in message
news:4d6eb067$0$14834$882e7ee2@usenet-news.net...
> On 3/2/2011 3:13 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2011-03-01, dsi1<dsi1@usenet-news.net> wrote:
>>> In the scheme of things, our personal opinions don't matter much
>>> do they?
>>
>> They do at least in terms of the directions our own lives take. I
>> can
>> assure you that I will never own an electric or hybrid car. What
>> the
>> rest of you do is your own business, of course.
>>
>
> Is there any reason that you think that the electric car is a bad
> idea?
50% of electrical generation in the US is through the burning of coal.
This negates "green features" of this car. Depending on where you
live, the electrical costs could be equal to or higher than the
equivalent fuel costs. As we (the general American public) buy into
the liberal hysteria about these types of vehicles, electrical
distribution costs will go even higher as new infrastructure is
needed. Imagine a few million of these in Cal, where rolling
brownouts are the norm.
If anything, the hybrid is a better choice, IMO.
== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 5:39 am
From: dsi1
On Mar 6, 2:35 am, "Stewart" <gorta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "dsi1" <d...@usenet-news.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4d6eb067$0$14834$882e7ee2@usenet-news.net...
>
> > On 3/2/2011 3:13 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
> >> On 2011-03-01, dsi1<d...@usenet-news.net> wrote:
> >>> In the scheme of things, our personal opinions don't matter much
> >>> do they?
>
> >> They do at least in terms of the directions our own lives take. I
> >> can
> >> assure you that I will never own an electric or hybrid car. What
> >> the
> >> rest of you do is your own business, of course.
>
> > Is there any reason that you think that the electric car is a bad
> > idea?
>
> 50% of electrical generation in the US is through the burning of coal.
> This negates "green features" of this car. Depending on where you
> live, the electrical costs could be equal to or higher than the
> equivalent fuel costs. As we (the general American public) buy into
> the liberal hysteria about these types of vehicles, electrical
> distribution costs will go even higher as new infrastructure is
> needed. Imagine a few million of these in Cal, where rolling
> brownouts are the norm.
> If anything, the hybrid is a better choice, IMO.
I did realize that the electricity would have to come from a factory
although I'm not so sure that it's cleaner to convert oil to gasoline
using coal or oil and then transport it in some way using more coal or
oil or gas or diesel and then use some electricity to pump it into our
tanks and then finally burning the gas in a piston engine. My guess is
that you'd be able to go a lot farther on a buck of electricity vs a
buck of gas - although that's just a guess on my part. The way we
distribute electricity will have to be rebuilt but I'm assuming that
we can do it.
== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 7:41 am
From: bob urz
On 3/2/2011 4:00 PM, tnom@mucks.net wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:39:56 -0800 (PST), ben91932
> <benteaches@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Since when was the Volt General Motors flagship vehicle?
>> It may not be their flagship, but they are certainly banking on it as
>> the future of the company.
>
> You have to be kidding. GM is not banking on the Volt as the future
> of the company.
>
>> That car-of-the-year award didnt hurt them any...
>> Ben
I will wait for the "watt", and luxo Cadillac version the "Kilo-watt".
Maybe they will replace the Corvette with the "amp".
But it still see great "resistance" from the general public.
"Inductance" into the car hall of fame is doubtful.
It will be helpful to have a large trunk "capacitance" for gear.
When the electric owners get that large home electric bill,
it will be "Power Factor" time in figuring out if its practical at all.
Turning on the "AC" will have a whole new meaning.
bob
== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 11:20 am
From: ben91932
> Maybe they will replace the Corvette with the "amp".
> But it still see great "resistance" from the general public.
> bob
Folks had trouble accepting seat belts, fuel injection, air bags, disc
brakes, radial tires etc
While I find the resistance to EV's silly, I guess I should have
expected it..
Ben
== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 12:03 pm
From: "Daniel who wants to know"
"Stewart" <gortamus@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ikvuj9$bd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> The cost of electricity in CT is hovering around $0.25 a KWH, so cost
> savings is virtually nil for this vehicle.
No kidding, a proper EV is about 4 miles per KWh (250Wh per mile), that
makes 16 miles per dollar for you. Current gas prices mean a 50MPG vehicle
is about 15 miles per dollar.
== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 12:34 pm
From: "hls"
"Bjorn" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message news:eb3bebcd-58e9-You would not
put coal in cars but using coal to create electricity is
ok and new technology is possible to make coal power plants better and
they need not pollute.
******
They pollute automatically with the CO2 output.
== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 12:39 pm
From: "hls"
"ben91932" <benteaches@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1d2782f8-> While I
find the resistance to EV's silly, I guess I should have
> expected it..
> Ben
True.. I dont resist them, really, as a concept. I resist them personally
and I think that they are, at this time, a rather poor choice of technology
No comments:
Post a Comment