http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda?hl=en
rec.autos.makers.honda@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Video: Honda CR-Z by Noblesse testing at Suzuka - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/8c4b747f2c485b38?hl=en
* Toyota says no evidence 'runaway' Prius happened - 23 messages, 13 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/8c002a7a54dcca97?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video: Honda CR-Z by Noblesse testing at Suzuka
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/8c4b747f2c485b38?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 11:43 pm
From: "thomas"
<sjmmail2000-247@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OYydnRePGZVUdQTWnZ2dnUVZ7omdnZ2d@bt.com...
> The first customized Honda CR-Z made its first testings at the Suzuka test
> track. And while the video only shows the interior of the car, we can?t
> wait to see the final product!
> Read More:
> http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/video-honda-cr-z-by-noblesse-testing-at-suzuka-ar86246.html
>
going by the other Honda hybrids "nobless" seems appropriate ;-)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 4:43 am
From: ACAR
On Mar 14, 3:43 am, "thomas" <to0oommy...@retardedloony.com> wrote:
The first customized Honda CR-Z
>
> going by the other Honda hybrids "nobless" seems appropriate ;-)
not to mention by "customized" they mean track prepared; aka you can't
buy it this way.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Toyota says no evidence 'runaway' Prius happened
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/8c002a7a54dcca97?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 5:47 am
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
dbu'' <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
> > When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank the
> > gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>
> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
> that simple.
see, you're representative of the public at large. You can't possibly
imagine that a Prius could behave like every other car in the
world--even though you've never owned or driven one.
The driver can indeed yank the shifter into neutral and/or turn the car
off. Yanking into neutral is as easy as it is in a Buick--touch shift
lever, move to neutral.
And you know what happens? Yeah. No drama. Drive system disengages,
gas engine stops running, car immediately starts slowing down.
> There is no conventional key, there might even be a delay
> in time for ignition off due to the electronics involved.
If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3 second
delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered to
read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never bother
even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read it,
so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when they
get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they never
bother to investigate how that power button works.
> The shifting
> system is not a mechanical linkage I don't beleive.
Correct. So? It *does* have a shifter, it *does* have a neutral
position--why do you think moving the shifter to neutral "might not be
that simple"????
> That said, it should
> have a fail safe system of shutting down and coming to a safe stop, OFF
> the freeway.
Just like your '67 Buick does, yes. It's called "shift the sonunvabitch
to neutral and coast to a stop".
> Toyota innovations are getting ahead of operator
> understanding of these vehicles.
Dude, SHIFTING TO NEUTRAL IS NOT A "TOYOTA INNOVATION". What the fuck
is so hard to understand about this simple and oh-so-basic function?
For Sikes to have claimed that "I thought the car would flip if I
shifted to neutral" is enough for me to demand that he be taken off the
road for the rest of his life.
== 2 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 5:02 am
From: dgk
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:47:56 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>In article <4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> dbu'' <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank the
>> > gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>>
>> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
>> that simple.
>...
>> Toyota innovations are getting ahead of operator
>> understanding of these vehicles.
>
>Dude, SHIFTING TO NEUTRAL IS NOT A "TOYOTA INNOVATION". What the fuck
>is so hard to understand about this simple and oh-so-basic function?
>
>For Sikes to have claimed that "I thought the car would flip if I
>shifted to neutral" is enough for me to demand that he be taken off the
>road for the rest of his life.
And that is the bottom line. I would worry that the engine might
destroy itself if I shifted a runaway car into neutral, but given that
the other option is to smash into someone else at 90+ mph, I take that
risk.
== 3 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 5:17 am
From: "JoeSpareBedroom"
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-3343C8.07475616032010@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> dbu'' <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank
>> > the
>> > gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>>
>> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
>> that simple.
>
> see, you're representative of the public at large. You can't possibly
> imagine that a Prius could behave like every other car in the
> world--even though you've never owned or driven one.
>
> The driver can indeed yank the shifter into neutral and/or turn the car
> off. Yanking into neutral is as easy as it is in a Buick--touch shift
> lever, move to neutral.
>
> And you know what happens? Yeah. No drama. Drive system disengages,
> gas engine stops running, car immediately starts slowing down.
>
>
>
>> There is no conventional key, there might even be a delay
>> in time for ignition off due to the electronics involved.
>
> If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3 second
> delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered to
> read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
> arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never bother
> even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read it,
> so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when they
> get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they never
> bother to investigate how that power button works.
So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius running?
== 4 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:18 am
From: "Justbob30"
"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:LFKnn.40001$_v6.22173@newsfe08.iad...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-3343C8.07475616032010@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> dbu'' <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> > When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank
>>> > the
>>> > gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>>>
>>> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
>>> that simple.
>>
>> see, you're representative of the public at large. You can't possibly
>> imagine that a Prius could behave like every other car in the
>> world--even though you've never owned or driven one.
>>
>> The driver can indeed yank the shifter into neutral and/or turn the car
>> off. Yanking into neutral is as easy as it is in a Buick--touch shift
>> lever, move to neutral.
>>
>> And you know what happens? Yeah. No drama. Drive system disengages,
>> gas engine stops running, car immediately starts slowing down.
>>
>>
>>
>>> There is no conventional key, there might even be a delay
>>> in time for ignition off due to the electronics involved.
>>
>> If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3 second
>> delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered to
>> read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
>> arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never bother
>> even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read it,
>> so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when they
>> get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they never
>> bother to investigate how that power button works.
>
>
> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius running?
Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has been
known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>
== 5 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:20 am
From: "Obveeus"
"Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>> running?
>
> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has been
> known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
Won't the car shut off when you open the door?
== 6 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:31 am
From: "JoeSpareBedroom"
"Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> news:LFKnn.40001$_v6.22173@newsfe08.iad...
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> news:elmop-3343C8.07475616032010@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> In article <4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> dbu'' <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank
>>>> > the
>>>> > gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>>>>
>>>> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
>>>> that simple.
>>>
>>> see, you're representative of the public at large. You can't possibly
>>> imagine that a Prius could behave like every other car in the
>>> world--even though you've never owned or driven one.
>>>
>>> The driver can indeed yank the shifter into neutral and/or turn the car
>>> off. Yanking into neutral is as easy as it is in a Buick--touch shift
>>> lever, move to neutral.
>>>
>>> And you know what happens? Yeah. No drama. Drive system disengages,
>>> gas engine stops running, car immediately starts slowing down.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> There is no conventional key, there might even be a delay
>>>> in time for ignition off due to the electronics involved.
>>>
>>> If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3 second
>>> delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered to
>>> read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
>>> arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never bother
>>> even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read it,
>>> so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when they
>>> get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they never
>>> bother to investigate how that power button works.
>>
>>
>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>> running?
>
> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has been
> known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>>
Then what's the purpose of having the OFF button? It seems odd that owners
would not become acquainted with it on day #1 of owning the car.
== 7 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:36 am
From: jim beam
On 03/16/2010 07:31 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Justbob30"<NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
> news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom"<newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>> news:LFKnn.40001$_v6.22173@newsfe08.iad...
>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>>> news:elmop-3343C8.07475616032010@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> In article<4LednSrST467RAPWnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>>> dbu''<nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> When this "runaway" accelertor problem happens, can't the driver yank
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> gear shift to neutral, and/or turn the ignition off?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Prius is unlike any conventional car. I don't believe it's quite
>>>>> that simple.
>>>>
>>>> see, you're representative of the public at large. You can't possibly
>>>> imagine that a Prius could behave like every other car in the
>>>> world--even though you've never owned or driven one.
>>>>
>>>> The driver can indeed yank the shifter into neutral and/or turn the car
>>>> off. Yanking into neutral is as easy as it is in a Buick--touch shift
>>>> lever, move to neutral.
>>>>
>>>> And you know what happens? Yeah. No drama. Drive system disengages,
>>>> gas engine stops running, car immediately starts slowing down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There is no conventional key, there might even be a delay
>>>>> in time for ignition off due to the electronics involved.
>>>>
>>>> If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3 second
>>>> delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered to
>>>> read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
>>>> arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never bother
>>>> even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read it,
>>>> so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when they
>>>> get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they never
>>>> bother to investigate how that power button works.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>>> running?
>>
>> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has been
>> known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>>>
>
>
> Then what's the purpose of having the OFF button? It seems odd that owners
> would not become acquainted with it on day #1 of owning the car.
>
>
drive a prius dude. prius drivers leave those things on all the time -
the vehicle makes no noise so it's real easy to forget.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 8 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:36 am
From: Nasty
Obveeus wrote:
> "Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
> news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>>> running?
>> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has been
>> known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>
> Won't the car shut off when you open the door?
>
>
No. I have one. It WILL shift into neutral at any speed. It WILL turn
off by pressing the power button without shifting to park. It WILL
operate at or below the speed limit and can be operated without having a
wreck so I don't have to make up stories about it "running away on its
own".
When stopped, at a red light for instance, the gasoline engine will shut
down when the battery is above a pre-set level. When the battery level
drops the gasoline engine will start automatically, run at idle speed,
and recharge the battery. If the light is a long one and the battery
draw is high this cycle may repeat.
IMHO almost all runaway cars are caused by a defect in the central
processor of the driver. The driver steps on the gas instead of the
brake, panics, and presses the gas pedal even harder thinking they are
pressing the brake pedal. Then again, I live in Florida, seems like we
have a lot of runaway cars of all makes and models. Interestingly high
percentage of Cadillacs and Lincolns with VERY senior citizens. Remember
now, this is all just MHO.
== 9 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:54 am
From: Tegger
Nasty <nasty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:4b9f977a$0$4975$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com:
>
> No. I have one. It WILL shift into neutral at any speed. It WILL turn
> off by pressing the power button without shifting to park. It WILL
> operate at or below the speed limit and can be operated without having
> a wreck so I don't have to make up stories about it "running away on
> its own".
I've never driven a Prius. Under what exact conditions does the thing
actually run under battery power alone?
--
Tegger
== 10 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:00 am
From: "C. E. White"
"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:LFKnn.40001$_v6.22173@newsfe08.iad...
>> If you're using the power button, they've programmed it with a 3
>> second
>> delay. You'd know that if (a) you owned one, and (b) you bothered
>> to
>> read the owner's manual of your shiny new $25,000 toy. Of course,
>> arrogant asses who claim they know everything about driving never
>> bother
>> even to open or keep track of their owner's manual, let alone read
>> it,
>> so they wouldn't know how their specific car operates. Even when
>> they
>> get in and see that there's no key like in their '67 Buick, they
>> never
>> bother to investigate how that power button works.
>
>
> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
> running?
The power button actc differently when the vehicle is at reat. If the
car is stopped, pushing it once turns off the vehicle (you don't need
to hold it for three seconds). You only have to hold if for three
seconds if the car is moving.
Ed
== 11 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:37 am
From: "Obveeus"
"Nasty" <nasty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4b9f977a$0$4975$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> Obveeus wrote:
>> "Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
>> news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>>>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>>>> running?
>>> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has
>>> been known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>>
>> Won't the car shut off when you open the door?
>
> No. I have one. It WILL shift into neutral at any speed. It WILL turn off
> by pressing the power button without shifting to park. It WILL operate at
> or below the speed limit and can be operated without having a wreck so I
> don't have to make up stories about it "running away on its own".
So if a person drive into their driveway, presses the brake until they stop,
then gets out of the car without shutting the car off (or pressing park),
what stops it from 'running away'? If what you say is true and it is still
on (and no one is pressing the brake anymore) what keep the car from moving?
Are you simply hoping the driveway is flat enough that the car doesn't roll
away or does it take a significant amount of gas pedal to provide any
forward momentem?
I thought one of the safety features for the Prius was that getting out of
the car (opening the door or moving the wireless key away from the vehicle
at all) would shut it off. Is that only the 2010 model?
> IMHO almost all runaway cars are caused by a defect in the central
> processor of the driver.
Agreed. Most of this issue is with old people (or other problem drivers).
Similiarly, it is silly to expect Prius drivers to know how to avoid an
accident even if the car (say the brake system) fails since drivers in
pretty much any type of car get into accidents (more often than not) when
such a system fails.
== 12 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 11:06 am
From: Scott in Florida
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:36:18 -0400, Nasty <nasty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> I live in Florida, seems like we
>have a lot of runaway cars of all makes and models. Interestingly high
>percentage of Cadillacs and Lincolns with VERY senior citizens. Remember
>now, this is all just MHO.
Your humble opinion is correct IMHO.
--
Scott in Florida
== 13 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 12:14 pm
From: Nasty
Tegger wrote:
> Nasty <nasty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
> news:4b9f977a$0$4975$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com:
>
>
>> No. I have one. It WILL shift into neutral at any speed. It WILL turn
>> off by pressing the power button without shifting to park. It WILL
>> operate at or below the speed limit and can be operated without having
>> a wreck so I don't have to make up stories about it "running away on
>> its own".
>
>
>
> I've never driven a Prius. Under what exact conditions does the thing
> actually run under battery power alone?
>
>
It has a system by which it monitors the battery charge level. It will
run on the battery only at idle and up to about 25 mph with 'normal'
acceleration. When the battery charge is reduced to a pre-set level the
gas engine starts up automatically to charge it, or if you do a jack
rabbit start from a stop it will start also. The thing apparently
doesn't have a traditional starter. The gas motor just starts running
when needed almost like an old fashioned jump start from a push and
popping the clutch.
It's kinda wild. Ours is an '07 and is exempt, so far anyway, from the
problems making the rounds. It still causes me to look when it shuts the
gas motor down while, for instance, at a red light. It just goes against
all my experience for the motor to suddenly stop. With a strictly gas
motor this is a pretty not good thing.
All systems will function normally while on battery only. The thing has
a display that shows the status of the system, battery level, gas engine
running and charging the battery, gas engine running and delivering
drive power, power recovery from the brakes to the battery. It can be
distracting because it's fun to watch.
== 14 of 23 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 12:18 pm
From: Nasty
Obveeus wrote:
> "Nasty" <nasty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4b9f977a$0$4975$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> Obveeus wrote:
>>> "Justbob30" <NoThank@you.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hno406$9el$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>>>>> So, when they arrive at their destination, they leave their Prius
>>>>> running?
>>>> Since the car doe NOT run when stopped (most of the time) yes it has
>>>> been known to happen...again maybe if you had ever driven one.
>>> Won't the car shut off when you open the door?
>> No. I have one. It WILL shift into neutral at any speed. It WILL turn off
>> by pressing the power button without shifting to park. It WILL operate at
>> or below the speed limit and can be operated without having a wreck so I
>> don't have to make up stories about it "running away on its own".
>
> So if a person drive into their driveway, presses the brake until they stop,
> then gets out of the car without shutting the car off (or pressing park),
> what stops it from 'running away'? If what you say is true and it is still
> on (and no one is pressing the brake anymore) what keep the car from moving?
> Are you simply hoping the driveway is flat enough that the car doesn't roll
> away or does it take a significant amount of gas pedal to provide any
> forward momentem?
Nothing, just like getting out of any car. If you get out and the car is
running and in drive it will go forward.
>
> I thought one of the safety features for the Prius was that getting out of
> the car (opening the door or moving the wireless key away from the vehicle
> at all) would shut it off. Is that only the 2010 model?
Can't say. Ours will stay 'on' if you get out without the 'key' once
it's sensed the key and started. Haven't tried to drive away without the
key though. I'll run a little test and report back on that.
>
>
>> IMHO almost all runaway cars are caused by a defect in the central
>> processor of the driver.
>
> Agreed. Most of this issue is with old people (or other problem drivers)
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