http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda?hl=en
rec.autos.makers.honda@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Battery Problem - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/74757608d84317e9?hl=en
* Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?) - 8 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
* The 'Teg might finally be pooched... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
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TOPIC: Battery Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/74757608d84317e9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Aug 14 2010 6:12 pm
From: J.L.Hemmer
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:28:42 +0100, "Tinkerer"
<invalidaddress@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
Four
>years and 52K miles seems a short life for a battery considering that I have
>just replaced the original on my Peugeot 406 after eleven years and 132K
>miles.
>
>Any thoughts please?
Four years?! I live in a hot climate. Four years is about the MAX I
expect out of a battery. My wife's '97 Altima (traded in on an 08
Civic) chewed up a battery every 18 months or so. Everything was
checked (many times) and no problems ever found. The only answer was
that the heat and possible added heat from placement in the engine
compartment was the 'killer'.
I generally don't trust batteries after about three years. However,
I'm sure others here will have their own opinions.
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TOPIC: Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 7:38 am
From: "MG"
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-C7D1E6.12231313082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com...
> In article <EGd9o.15534$st2.6277@newsfe09.iad>,
> "MG" <rebore78052@mypacks.net> wrote:
>
>> My 02 Ody transmission also failed, at almost the same mileage.
>> Fortunately
>> for me, it was both under the Certified warranty and the free replacement
>> period, so all I lost was a week of use. The new/reman tranny was better
>> than the original ever was, and shifted perfectly until 165,000 miles
>> when
>> an idiot totaled it. Sorry you got caught out of pocket.
>
> Not yet I haven't. It's in the hands of the dealership general manager,
> who sympathizes with me to the point of pursuing it with Honda.
>
> If I'm out of pocket, I hope it's nowhere near $3400.
>
> But you've given me great hope for the replacement.
>
> Question: did your replacement also include a new control computer?
> That's American Honda's story of why it's such an expensive repair. I
> thought maybe they were just padding things to recoup that 25%.
>
> Tegger?
Honestly, it's been about 4 years and I don't remember. I know there was
talk about it but I'm not sure it was done. Since it was warranty, thus
free to me, and the car ran perfectly after that for another 90k or so, I
put it out of my mind.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 7:44 am
From: "MG"
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-A3E469.20312313082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com...
> In article <MPG.26cf9df4802af0b398a2d9@208.90.168.18>,
> Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote:
>
>> In my experience, a firm but polite letter directly to American Honda's
>> customer service division from someone who's owned multiple Hondas
>> exclusively over a period of many years is likely to carry more weight
>> than a request for a goodwill repair from a dealer.
>
> You just said pretty much what I just heard this afternoon from a friend
> of mine who is now a service writer at an Acura dealer, and who was my
> service writer at this dealership for many years.
>
> Absent the dealership general manager getting as far as I want, that
> will absolutely be the next step. Thanks.
Here's what I sent. I realize now that I didn't even mention the fact that
the van was my 4th Honda.
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Customer Service
Mail Stop 500-2N-7A
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
Re: 2002 Odyssey
VIN: 2HKRL
Gentlemen:
My van was recently diagnosed as having a bad A/C compressor at Honda East
in Cincinnati, Ohio. Because they looked at it for several hours on 2
different occasions before giving me this opinion, I took the van to an
independent A/C shop to verify it. This shop said the problem was the
compressor clutch coil, and after replacing that, they suddenly decided that
the compressor was also bad. I have not had this repair done yet.
I am writing because I am a bit alarmed that a van with approximately 72000
miles could suffer such a major failure, particularly a Honda vehicle. I
bought the car at Grappone Honda. It was Honda certified, and I do not know
what may have happened during its first 31,000 miles. What I do know is
that I have owned 10 different vehicles over the years, driving most of them
well over 100,000 miles, and the only A/C compressor failure I ever suffered
occurred when new belts were installed and improperly tensioned. So while
it may just have been my good luck so far, I feel this failure is a bit
premature.
I am wondering whether Odysseys have a history of compressor failures, or
whether mine is just a fluke. I am still trying to decide what to do about
this repair. Obviously I will need the air conditioning system to be
working before summer. Are there any service bulletins on this that I
should have been aware of? Until I went for a second opinion, all the
service on this van has been performed by Honda dealers, and either early or
on schedule.
Please advise.
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 2:39 pm
From: Tegger
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-2CC95D.08322213082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.e
xample.com:
>
> Interesting postscript: as I discussed this with the dealership's
> service manager, he told me that he had an 03 Honda truck where the
> transmission failed exactly as mine did. He, too, asked Honda for
> help; they denied him, completely. Did I mention this was the
> DEALERSHIP SERVICE MANAGER?
Honda is pretty generous with tranny repairs/replacements, with a
significant number of "goodwill" warranty-repairs being done at no cost to
the customer, provided the vehicle's VIN falls inside one of the TSBs or
recalls.
I don't know what went wrong in your case, or of that of the Service
Manager at the dealership in question, but I can tell you that, in my
experience, those are unusual cases.
--
Tegger
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 3:51 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <y76dnXDnZYuHn_vRnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:
>
>>> Absent the dealership general manager getting as far as I want, that
>>> will absolutely be the next step. Thanks.
>>
>> If worse comes to worse... You might consider a JDM replacement.
>
> ????
>
> Link?
>
> Inquiring minds and all that...
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/
http://www.sunrisejdmmotors.com/
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 3:10 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD5B392AF51Btegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> Honda is pretty generous with tranny repairs/replacements, with a
> significant number of "goodwill" warranty-repairs being done at no cost to
> the customer, provided the vehicle's VIN falls inside one of the TSBs or
> recalls.
>
> I don't know what went wrong in your case, or of that of the Service
> Manager at the dealership in question, but I can tell you that, in my
> experience, those are unusual cases.
The problem is, the only trannies that Honda officially recognized as
problematic are the 4 speed units.
Mine is the first of the five speed units, starting with the 02 Odyssey
and moving on to the 03 Accord. 2002 and 2003 trannies are widely KNOWN
to be problems--Honda addressed the problems and redesigned the unit in
mid 2004 model year--but there's no official recognition via recall or
TSB.
And therein lies the problem.
Added to that is the sour economy, which has caused Honda to pull back
BIG time on their goodwill program. While they used to be very
generous--some would say OVERLY generous--they've pulled way back, and
some in the know say they've gone overboard the other direction now.
For example, a few years ago at 32K miles (but 42 months) I needed a new
idle control valve in the intake. $300 repair. I'm in the dealership,
it's 7pm, and I'm thinking this isn't right. I asked the service writer
to phone the service manager (same guy I'm dealing with today); he's at
home, watching TV. In a matter of a few moments he OKs the repair under
goodwill, based on the fact that it's under warranty miles, knowing that
he can easily justify it to the Honda zone rep. I get a free repair.
Is that an example of an overly generous program? Maybe.
Fast forward to today, and Honda sticks its head in the sand on these
self-destructing five speed trannies from 02 and 03, units they know
from experience are ALL going to self-destruct at an early age. Is that
an example of going overboard the other direction? Absolutely.
Sure, pull back on the idle air control valves of the world. Make the
customers jump through some hoops for stuff like that. But these
transmissions? Honda, just admit that you screwed up and fix it.
It's not that they screwed up; that happens. People make mistakes.
What counts is how you recover from that. Sticking your head in the
sand and making the customer pay for your screwups is the
GM/Ford/Chrysler mentality from the 70s and 80s, behavior that put their
reputation in the toilet.
Is that where Honda wants to go tomorrow? Because they're doing it, one
grenading transmission at a time.
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 4:21 pm
From: Tegger
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-002CF3.18102015082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.e
xample.com:
> In article <Xns9DD5B392AF51Btegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Honda is pretty generous with tranny repairs/replacements, with a
>> significant number of "goodwill" warranty-repairs being done at no
>> cost to the customer, provided the vehicle's VIN falls inside one of
>> the TSBs or recalls.
>>
>> I don't know what went wrong in your case, or of that of the Service
>> Manager at the dealership in question, but I can tell you that, in my
>> experience, those are unusual cases.
>
> The problem is, the only trannies that Honda officially recognized as
> problematic are the 4 speed units.
>
> Mine is the first of the five speed units, starting with the 02
> Odyssey and moving on to the 03 Accord. 2002 and 2003 trannies are
> widely KNOWN to be problems--Honda addressed the problems and
> redesigned the unit in mid 2004 model year--but there's no official
> recognition via recall or TSB.
Have you spent the $10 to check for yourself with Techinfo?
--
Tegger
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 8:01 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD5C4D4DBF83tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> > Mine is the first of the five speed units, starting with the 02
> > Odyssey and moving on to the 03 Accord. 2002 and 2003 trannies are
> > widely KNOWN to be problems--Honda addressed the problems and
> > redesigned the unit in mid 2004 model year--but there's no official
> > recognition via recall or TSB.
>
>
>
> Have you spent the $10 to check for yourself with Techinfo?
>
> https://techinfo.honda.com
Nope. I asked my dealership. First I asked the service writer, then I
asked the service manager.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 9:08 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD5C4D4DBF83tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> > Mine is the first of the five speed units, starting with the 02
> > Odyssey and moving on to the 03 Accord. 2002 and 2003 trannies are
> > widely KNOWN to be problems--Honda addressed the problems and
> > redesigned the unit in mid 2004 model year--but there's no official
> > recognition via recall or TSB.
>
>
>
> Have you spent the $10 to check for yourself with Techinfo?
>
> https://techinfo.honda.com
OK, now this is hilarious. From the Feb. 2006 Service News publication:
Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle
lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give
thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance
schedule to the letter.
You can bet your ass that if I don't get resolution from the dealership,
my letter to American Honda will include that very passage from their
own Service News publication along with a request that they check the
dealership records--at which point they will find that I followed
American Honda's maintenance schedule to the letter.
The problem is, I should have cut down to a third the trans fluid change
interval. I would have, if Honda actually recommended it to me.
Anyway, no TSBs, just a lot of Service News articles. Or am I missing
something here? I looked at all service info items with keyword
"transmission"; I got 69 hits, 18 of which were relevant--and all of
which were either Service News pubs or else the supporting worksheets
that the tech has to fill out for core return.
Anyway, as always, you're right. Ten bucks well spent. I have more
info than I would have otherwise, even if it is merely details of the
broad issues I'm already aware of. I will talk to the dealership and to
American Honda in their own language now.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 'Teg might finally be pooched...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 6:27 pm
From: Tegger
Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
- oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
slightly before cleaning is performed;
- intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
- exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
by about 1 mpg in the past year:
2008: 29.79 mpg
2009: 29.91 mpg
2010: 28.75 mpg
(June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
Not good.
--
Tegger
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 8:32 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Tegger wrote:
> Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>
> Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
> - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
> slightly before cleaning is performed;
> - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
> - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
> high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
>
> Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
> spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
> by about 1 mpg in the past year:
> 2008: 29.79 mpg
> 2009: 29.91 mpg
> 2010: 28.75 mpg
> (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
>
> Not good.
>
>
You worry too much.
Put some 20/50 Castrol in it...
JT
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