http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda?hl=en
rec.autos.makers.honda@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?) - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
* The 'Teg might finally be pooched... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
* Failing 2002 Odyssey trans - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
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TOPIC: Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Aug 15 2010 9:08 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD5C4D4DBF83tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> > Mine is the first of the five speed units, starting with the 02
> > Odyssey and moving on to the 03 Accord. 2002 and 2003 trannies are
> > widely KNOWN to be problems--Honda addressed the problems and
> > redesigned the unit in mid 2004 model year--but there's no official
> > recognition via recall or TSB.
>
>
>
> Have you spent the $10 to check for yourself with Techinfo?
>
> https://techinfo.honda.com
OK, now this is hilarious. From the Feb. 2006 Service News publication:
Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle
lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give
thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance
schedule to the letter.
You can bet your ass that if I don't get resolution from the dealership,
my letter to American Honda will include that very passage from their
own Service News publication along with a request that they check the
dealership records--at which point they will find that I followed
American Honda's maintenance schedule to the letter.
The problem is, I should have cut down to a third the trans fluid change
interval. I would have, if Honda actually recommended it to me.
Anyway, no TSBs, just a lot of Service News articles. Or am I missing
something here? I looked at all service info items with keyword
"transmission"; I got 69 hits, 18 of which were relevant--and all of
which were either Service News pubs or else the supporting worksheets
that the tech has to fill out for core return.
Anyway, as always, you're right. Ten bucks well spent. I have more
info than I would have otherwise, even if it is merely details of the
broad issues I'm already aware of. I will talk to the dealership and to
American Honda in their own language now.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 9:19 am
From: jim beam
On 08/13/2010 05:32 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<Xns9DD2C0868D2D4tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger<invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Brake and tranny-fluid changes are NEVER a bad idea.
>
> wish I'd followed a trans fluid change schedule that was MUCH more
> aggressive than what Honda documented for my 02 Odyssey. I'm now facing
> a transmission replacement.
wouldn't have made much difference - there is a fundamental problem with
those transmissions.
>
> There is exactly zero reason a single owner Honda family van, driven
> around town by a stay at home mom at the rate of around 8000 miles/year,
> should have a complete transmission failure at 73,000 miles.
>
> Honda, in their post-goodwill days, seems to think this isn't
> unreasonable at all. But they'll go ahead and accommodate me to the
> tune of 25% of the cost, leaving me with an out of pocket cost of $3400
> plus tax. Nice, Honda. You stay classy.<snort>
>
> You know, it's not that they did a bad job in designing and building the
> transmission.
that's way too charitable - they screwed up royally. there's no excuse
for not testing properly. it's real simple - you put the thing in a
test vehicle, then give it to some college kids to kick the stinky stuff
out of. 100,000 miles is less than 9 months - a very small portion of
development lead time. vegas, san fran, denver, l.a. pretty standard
test circuit. or, as is accommodated by one of our local cab companies,
give the thing to a taxi fleet to drive.
either that, or the bean counters made a much more sinister decision and
tried to pursue life limitation, the technology domestics created, and
the europeans perfected. but if that was the goal, they screwed that up
too.
> People fail and/or make mistakes--that's part of life.
> It's all in how they address their own major failure that counts. And
> they've decided, unlike the old pre-downturn days, not to address it.
> Tough luck, Mr. Customer.
>
> I might accept this on a $400 repair. I cannot accept it on a $4500
> driveline repair.
>
> That is how reputations are lost. Honda spent many, many years building
> up a great reputation--but they're now throwing it into the trash, one
> customer at a time, probably at a rate of hundreds a month as these
> transmissions fail.
>
> When I bought the van, the choice was either Honda or Chrysler. Well,
> that was a no brainer, right? Even though the Honda cost a bunch more,
> it was still the superior value--at least, based on all the information
> anyone had at the time.
>
> But Honda had other plans. They sacrificed their legendary quality on
> the altar of short term profits, knowing that the failures wouldn't show
> up for years. This kind of planning is right up there with Ford
> calculating the cost of Pinto lawsuits vs. the cost of fixing the Pinto.
>
> Buying a Honda is now, to me and many others, not the automatic choice
> anymore. They're just another manufacturer in a sea of manufacturers,
> each trying its best to make an extra buck while passing the future
> consequences of their cost cutting right onto the back of the consumer.
> And frankly, I may have already chosen never to give American Honda
> another dime of my business, just on general principle. We'll see.
>
> This story isn't over yet. The fat lady has yet to sing. We'll see
> what is the ultimate outcome. For over 25 years my family and I have
> bought Hondas (and most recently an Acura, an MDX) from one single
> dealership, and have had all the service done at that dealership, on the
> factory schedule or more. Now is the time for this dealership to step
> up to the plate and pursue this aggressively. They're a good
> dealership, at least down in the weeds where it counts. We'll see how
> upper management addresses my concerns.
>
> Interesting postscript: as I discussed this with the dealership's
> service manager, he told me that he had an 03 Honda truck where the
> transmission failed exactly as mine did. He, too, asked Honda for help;
> they denied him, completely. Did I mention this was the DEALERSHIP
> SERVICE MANAGER?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 4:19 pm
From: Tegger
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
D67E25.00082916082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com:
>
> Anyway, as always, you're right. Ten bucks well spent. I have more
> info than I would have otherwise, even if it is merely details of the
> broad issues I'm already aware of. I will talk to the dealership and to
> American Honda in their own language now.
I think you're missing something. TSBs ought to be "right there", and easy
to find.
Honda's Techinfo site is a bit clunky compared to Toyota's, but everything
is there. You can phone Technical Support (no additional charge) at the
number given on the Techinfo site. The techs there will be very glad to
help you find what you need.
You would be very wise to do some real checking of your own. Honda's
weakest link is their dealerships, which seem to be usually populated by
workers with a less-than-impressive degree of diligence and doggedness.
Try again.
--
Tegger
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 5:25 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD6C478437FFtegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> I think you're missing something. TSBs ought to be "right there", and easy
> to find.
Oh, I got them. They're not particularly "right there" or easy to find,
but they're not difficult.
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TOPIC: The 'Teg might finally be pooched...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 10:15 am
From: ACAR
On Aug 15, 11:32 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy...@GrumpyvilleNOT.com>
wrote:
> Tegger wrote:
> > Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
> >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>
> > Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
> > - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
> > slightly before cleaning is performed;
> > - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
> > - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
> > high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
>
> > Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
> > spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
> > by about 1 mpg in the past year:
> > 2008: 29.79 mpg
> > 2009: 29.91 mpg
> > 2010: 28.75 mpg
> > (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
>
> > Not good.
>
> You worry too much.
>
> Put some 20/50 Castrol in it...
>
> JT
Castrol also sells straight weight HD 30 and HD 40.
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TOPIC: Failing 2002 Odyssey trans
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 12:35 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
Honda previously offered 25% accommodation on this replacement. I
pursued this through my dealership's GM, and Honda has now upped that
offer to 50%.
I could try to chase after this through Honda corporate, but I've
decided to fix the car with the offer that's on the table and move on.
That doesn't mean I'm particularly ecstatic.
Oh, and on the heels of this comes the news about how Honda has screwed
up the whole hybrid battery thing:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-honda-20100815,0,1088581.story#
Looks like this is more corporate head-in-sand behavior. Reading
between the lines, it looks like they're reprogramming the cars to
be...gasoline cars.
Dear Honda: goodbye.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 4:23 pm
From: Tegger
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
8114D4.15355316082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com:
> Honda previously offered 25% accommodation on this replacement. I
> pursued this through my dealership's GM, and Honda has now upped that
> offer to 50%.
>
> I could try to chase after this through Honda corporate, but I've
> decided to fix the car with the offer that's on the table and move on.
>
> That doesn't mean I'm particularly ecstatic.
The scenarios I personally see most often are either:
1) no charge to customer, or
2) Honda picks up the part, you pay the dealer's company for the labor.
There appears to me to be a connection between the dealer's relationship
with Honda, and the sort of support they get from Honda.
--
Tegger
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