http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Failing 2002 Odyssey trans - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
* The 'Teg might finally be pooched... - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
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TOPIC: Failing 2002 Odyssey trans
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 5:01 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <5padndH_mOg_gPbRnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:
> > I remember the days when Honda bought the part if I bought the labor.
> > Those days appear to be long gone.
>
>
> Yep... Time to consider another manufacturer.
>
> As an aside, Honda hybrid batteries are now failing well before the
> expected lifetime and Honda is using software patches that in turn
> increase reliance on the small engine thus driving down mpg.
>
> So, I guess the "suck it up" time has arrived...
Absolutely. I read that article about the hybrid batteries yesterday;
it was in the LA Times. If anyone wants a PDF of that, post your
request here.
And I came to exactly the same conclusion you did: Honda is using
software patches on their hybrid systems in order to turn them
into....30mpg gasoline cars. This prevents Honda from having to pay out
on battery warranty claims. The warranty on those batteries is 10
years/150K miles. So, the software fix to prevent the trouble code from
happening, at the expense of forcing the driver to use more gas, is
hugely beneficial to Honda. Take the cost of the problem and shift it
to the end user--hmmm, I'm seeing a pattern here...
Hey, Honda--it's time you fired all the General Motors people and put
the Honda engineers back in charge, like you had it in the 80s and early
90s.
This hybrid battery situation, on top of my transmission situation, has
absolutely closed the door on an era in my life. Not only is Honda no
longer the automatic assumption to buy, it's now the automatic
assumption of "they're going to screw my by making me pay for their bad
decisions, deficient engineering, and cost cutting programs".
(Did I just say "Honda" and "deficient engineering" in the same
sentence? Can someone please look out the window and look for flying
boulders? Is that the sun setting in the east?)
Why would I spend huge amounts of my hard-earned money that way?
Three and a half years ago, I got a company car. My choice was Malibu
or Prius. Sight unseen, having never even sat in one, I chose Prius.
And Toyota has rewarded me for that choice. That thing, built in Japan,
has been the model of trouble-free. So far, Honda has made it very easy
for me to walk into the Toyota dealer to spend time investigating how
I'm going to spend lots and lots of money for a transportation device.
Shame on you, Honda. You will ultimately fail, ultimately become known
as "just another Chrysler" in your quest for short-term profits at the
expense of the customer and keeping him satisfied (and just plain
keeping him). One day you'll wake up broke and drunk in the gutter,
with no friends and a dog pissing on you, and you'll wonder how you got
there.
Don't wonder very hard.
But it's not too late. It's not that you made mistakes so much as how
you recover from those mistakes. Fall on your sword, Honda. Bow down
to us as deeply as you can, apologize profusely, and make good on your
promises and your reputation for fine engineering and taking care of the
customer.
Absent that, fuck off and die.
(Do I sound bitter?)
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 5:12 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <5padndH_mOg_gPbRnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:
>
>>> I remember the days when Honda bought the part if I bought the labor.
>>> Those days appear to be long gone.
>>
>> Yep... Time to consider another manufacturer.
>>
>> As an aside, Honda hybrid batteries are now failing well before the
>> expected lifetime and Honda is using software patches that in turn
>> increase reliance on the small engine thus driving down mpg.
>>
>> So, I guess the "suck it up" time has arrived...
>
> Absolutely. I read that article about the hybrid batteries yesterday;
> it was in the LA Times. If anyone wants a PDF of that, post your
> request here.
>
> And I came to exactly the same conclusion you did: Honda is using
> software patches on their hybrid systems in order to turn them
> into....30mpg gasoline cars. This prevents Honda from having to pay out
> on battery warranty claims. The warranty on those batteries is 10
> years/150K miles. So, the software fix to prevent the trouble code from
> happening, at the expense of forcing the driver to use more gas, is
> hugely beneficial to Honda. Take the cost of the problem and shift it
> to the end user--hmmm, I'm seeing a pattern here...
Yep, the ol' "pass the buck" syndrome to the customer.
> Hey, Honda--it's time you fired all the General Motors people and put
> the Honda engineers back in charge, like you had it in the 80s and early
> 90s.
>
> This hybrid battery situation, on top of my transmission situation, has
> absolutely closed the door on an era in my life. Not only is Honda no
> longer the automatic assumption to buy, it's now the automatic
> assumption of "they're going to screw my by making me pay for their bad
> decisions, deficient engineering, and cost cutting programs".
>
> (Did I just say "Honda" and "deficient engineering" in the same
> sentence? Can someone please look out the window and look for flying
> boulders? Is that the sun setting in the east?)
>
> Why would I spend huge amounts of my hard-earned money that way?
Yep, that's why I just keep recyclin' old Gen II civics. Simple to
maintain/ repair and good solid engineering. Relatively simple too.
Remember, the more gadgets a car has, the higher the opportunity to pay
high repair bills for some items that don't make a squat of difference.
> Three and a half years ago, I got a company car. My choice was Malibu
> or Prius. Sight unseen, having never even sat in one, I chose Prius.
> And Toyota has rewarded me for that choice. That thing, built in Japan,
> has been the model of trouble-free. So far, Honda has made it very easy
> for me to walk into the Toyota dealer to spend time investigating how
> I'm going to spend lots and lots of money for a transportation device.
No company car here as I'm happily retired watchin' the world go by (or
is it implode?)?
> Shame on you, Honda. You will ultimately fail, ultimately become known
> as "just another Chrysler" in your quest for short-term profits at the
> expense of the customer and keeping him satisfied (and just plain
> keeping him). One day you'll wake up broke and drunk in the gutter,
> with no friends and a dog pissing on you, and you'll wonder how you got
> there.
Just like GM except that it won't take as long in this fast paced world...
> Don't wonder very hard.
>
> But it's not too late. It's not that you made mistakes so much as how
> you recover from those mistakes. Fall on your sword, Honda. Bow down
> to us as deeply as you can, apologize profusely, and make good on your
> promises and your reputation for fine engineering and taking care of the
> customer.
>
> Absent that, fuck off and die.
>
> (Do I sound bitter?)
Naw... Disgusted though.
Now, take a liberal dose of Grumpy's bedtime medication, (Pinch on the
rocks), and check in again tomorrow...
JT
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 'Teg might finally be pooched...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/67f0de9b402330a3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 8:24 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net>
Tegger wrote:
>
> Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>
> Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
> - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
> slightly before cleaning is performed;
> - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
> - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
> high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
>
> Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
> spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
> by about 1 mpg in the past year:
> 2008: 29.79 mpg
> 2009: 29.91 mpg
> 2010: 28.75 mpg
> (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
Why don't you measure your oil consumption over a longer interval like
you do for gas mileage. Or if your goal is to be consistently stupid
why don't you compute gas mileage based on 25 miles driving intervals?
I notice you went from 344,700 349,00 without an oil change. Thought you
claimed to change oil every 3000 miles.
-jim
>
> Not good.
>
> --
> Tegger
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 4:54 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
jim wrote:
>
> Tegger wrote:
>> Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>>
>> Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
>> - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
>> slightly before cleaning is performed;
>> - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
>> - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
>> high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
>>
>> Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
>> spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
>> by about 1 mpg in the past year:
>> 2008: 29.79 mpg
>> 2009: 29.91 mpg
>> 2010: 28.75 mpg
>> (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
>
> Why don't you measure your oil consumption over a longer interval like
> you do for gas mileage. Or if your goal is to be consistently stupid
> why don't you compute gas mileage based on 25 miles driving intervals?
>
>
> I notice you went from 344,700 349,00 without an oil change. Thought you
> claimed to change oil every 3000 miles.
>
> -jim
Nuthin' misses yer beady eyes, eh?
JT
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 5:40 pm
From: Tegger
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net> wrote in
news:PcOdnU2bRbO6ZvbRnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@bright.net:
>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>>
>> Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very
>> rapidly. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>>
>> Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
>> - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate
>> sticks slightly before cleaning is performed;
>> - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
>> - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at
>> very high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following
>> car).
>>
>> Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in
>> the spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage
>> has dropped by about 1 mpg in the past year:
>> 2008: 29.79 mpg
>> 2009: 29.91 mpg
>> 2010: 28.75 mpg
>> (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
>
> Why don't you measure your oil consumption over a longer interval like
> you do for gas mileage. Or if your goal is to be consistently stupid
> why don't you compute gas mileage based on 25 miles driving intervals?
Because with the level dropping as far as it does, as fast as it does, I
now need to top-up more frequently than before. And if I top-up, I might as
well record what I find as I go.
>
>
> I notice you went from 344,700 349,00 without an oil change. Thought
> you claimed to change oil every 3000 miles.
>
That particular interval was due to my 83-year-old mother having some
serious health problems, ending up in the hospital for a couple of weeks; I
had no time to do an oil change. She lives an hour away from me one-way, so
I did a lot of driving over those two weeks.
--
Tegger
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 5:58 pm
From: Mat
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 01:27:52 +0000, Tegger wrote:
> Oil consumption in the old '91 Integra seems to be increasing very rapidly.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/oil-graph.pdf
>
> Throttle-body annual inspection & clean Aug14/10:
> - oil is now VERY evident -- carbon is now wet, and throttle plate sticks
> slightly before cleaning is performed;
> - intake plenum obviously coated with oil inside;
> - exhaust emits brief puff of smoke when transmission is shifted at very
> high revs (not visible to driver, but is visible to following car).
>
> Funny though, the car just passed smog with wonderul numbers back in the
> spring, and it starts and runs as well as ever. But gas mileage has dropped
> by about 1 mpg in the past year:
> 2008: 29.79 mpg
> 2009: 29.91 mpg
> 2010: 28.75 mpg
> (June-to-Aug, each measured interval roughly 3,000 miles)
>
> Not good.
Any piston slap issues with that Teg? I have had them since 120k, now at
240k (kms) Just a little knocking for the 1st min on cold mornings
otherwise no problems.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 6:19 pm
From: Tegger
Mat <mxxx@nowherexcv.net> wrote in
news:pan.2010.08.19.00.58.00.257000@nowherexcv.net:
>
> Any piston slap issues with that Teg?
Since about 90K miles. It's been essentially unchanged for 259K miles.
> I have had them since 120k, now
> at 240k (kms) Just a little knocking for the 1st min on cold mornings
> otherwise no problems.
>
My mechanic tells me piston-slap has no bearing on engine life; the engine
will die "with" it, not "of" it.
My problem with this car is simply piston-travel distance. The jalopy
spends much of its time on the highway at about 4,000 rpm, this due to a
very low-geared 5th. Pistons can only go up-and-down for so long before the
rings eventually wear out.
I have fervently wished, over the years, that I had a taller 5th...
--
Tegger
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 9:53 pm
From: Mat
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:19:12 +0000, Tegger wrote:
> Mat <mxxx@nowherexcv.net> wrote in
> news:pan.2010.08.19.00.58.00.257000@nowherexcv.net:
>
>
>>
>> Any piston slap issues with that Teg?
>
>
>
> Since about 90K miles. It's been essentially unchanged for 259K miles.
>
>
>
>> I have had them since 120k, now
>> at 240k (kms) Just a little knocking for the 1st min on cold mornings
>> otherwise no problems.
>>
>
>
> My mechanic tells me piston-slap has no bearing on engine life; the engine
> will die "with" it, not "of" it.
>
> My problem with this car is simply piston-travel distance. The jalopy
> spends much of its time on the highway at about 4,000 rpm, this due to a
> very low-geared 5th. Pistons can only go up-and-down for so long before the
> rings eventually wear out.
>
> I have fervently wished, over the years, that I had a taller 5th...
hmmm, iirc mine is at <3000 at 60mph 5th gear (90 Teg)
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