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Today's topics:
* Fluid change necessary? - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
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TOPIC: Fluid change necessary?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
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== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Aug 12 2010 3:56 pm
From: Tegger
Michael <michael.muderick@gmail.com> wrote in news:13719afa-505c-4fcc-a82e-
186b1c3ebdb6@e15g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:
> I have a 2000 accord, 60K. My dealer tells me I need to flush and re-
> fill brake and transmission fluid at 100 and 50 dollars. It was done
> at 30K. Is this really necessary and that expensive>?
> TIA.
>
What Elmo said.
Brake and tranny-fluid changes are NEVER a bad idea.
Also, have you checked your Owner's Manual? That document tells you exactly
what ought to be done, and when.
--
Tegger
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 5:32 am
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD2C0868D2D4tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> Brake and tranny-fluid changes are NEVER a bad idea.
wish I'd followed a trans fluid change schedule that was MUCH more
aggressive than what Honda documented for my 02 Odyssey. I'm now facing
a transmission replacement.
There is exactly zero reason a single owner Honda family van, driven
around town by a stay at home mom at the rate of around 8000 miles/year,
should have a complete transmission failure at 73,000 miles.
Honda, in their post-goodwill days, seems to think this isn't
unreasonable at all. But they'll go ahead and accommodate me to the
tune of 25% of the cost, leaving me with an out of pocket cost of $3400
plus tax. Nice, Honda. You stay classy. <snort>
You know, it's not that they did a bad job in designing and building the
transmission. People fail and/or make mistakes--that's part of life.
It's all in how they address their own major failure that counts. And
they've decided, unlike the old pre-downturn days, not to address it.
Tough luck, Mr. Customer.
I might accept this on a $400 repair. I cannot accept it on a $4500
driveline repair.
That is how reputations are lost. Honda spent many, many years building
up a great reputation--but they're now throwing it into the trash, one
customer at a time, probably at a rate of hundreds a month as these
transmissions fail.
When I bought the van, the choice was either Honda or Chrysler. Well,
that was a no brainer, right? Even though the Honda cost a bunch more,
it was still the superior value--at least, based on all the information
anyone had at the time.
But Honda had other plans. They sacrificed their legendary quality on
the altar of short term profits, knowing that the failures wouldn't show
up for years. This kind of planning is right up there with Ford
calculating the cost of Pinto lawsuits vs. the cost of fixing the Pinto.
Buying a Honda is now, to me and many others, not the automatic choice
anymore. They're just another manufacturer in a sea of manufacturers,
each trying its best to make an extra buck while passing the future
consequences of their cost cutting right onto the back of the consumer.
And frankly, I may have already chosen never to give American Honda
another dime of my business, just on general principle. We'll see.
This story isn't over yet. The fat lady has yet to sing. We'll see
what is the ultimate outcome. For over 25 years my family and I have
bought Hondas (and most recently an Acura, an MDX) from one single
dealership, and have had all the service done at that dealership, on the
factory schedule or more. Now is the time for this dealership to step
up to the plate and pursue this aggressively. They're a good
dealership, at least down in the weeds where it counts. We'll see how
upper management addresses my concerns.
Interesting postscript: as I discussed this with the dealership's
service manager, he told me that he had an 03 Honda truck where the
transmission failed exactly as mine did. He, too, asked Honda for help;
they denied him, completely. Did I mention this was the DEALERSHIP
SERVICE MANAGER?
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:39 am
From: "MG"
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-2CC95D.08322213082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com...
> In article <Xns9DD2C0868D2D4tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Brake and tranny-fluid changes are NEVER a bad idea.
>
> wish I'd followed a trans fluid change schedule that was MUCH more
> aggressive than what Honda documented for my 02 Odyssey. I'm now facing
> a transmission replacement.
>
> There is exactly zero reason a single owner Honda family van, driven
> around town by a stay at home mom at the rate of around 8000 miles/year,
> should have a complete transmission failure at 73,000 miles.
>
> Honda, in their post-goodwill days, seems to think this isn't
> unreasonable at all. But they'll go ahead and accommodate me to the
> tune of 25% of the cost, leaving me with an out of pocket cost of $3400
> plus tax. Nice, Honda. You stay classy. <snort>
>
> You know, it's not that they did a bad job in designing and building the
> transmission. People fail and/or make mistakes--that's part of life.
> It's all in how they address their own major failure that counts. And
> they've decided, unlike the old pre-downturn days, not to address it.
> Tough luck, Mr. Customer.
>
> I might accept this on a $400 repair. I cannot accept it on a $4500
> driveline repair.
>
> That is how reputations are lost. Honda spent many, many years building
> up a great reputation--but they're now throwing it into the trash, one
> customer at a time, probably at a rate of hundreds a month as these
> transmissions fail.
>
> When I bought the van, the choice was either Honda or Chrysler. Well,
> that was a no brainer, right? Even though the Honda cost a bunch more,
> it was still the superior value--at least, based on all the information
> anyone had at the time.
>
> But Honda had other plans. They sacrificed their legendary quality on
> the altar of short term profits, knowing that the failures wouldn't show
> up for years. This kind of planning is right up there with Ford
> calculating the cost of Pinto lawsuits vs. the cost of fixing the Pinto.
>
> Buying a Honda is now, to me and many others, not the automatic choice
> anymore. They're just another manufacturer in a sea of manufacturers,
> each trying its best to make an extra buck while passing the future
> consequences of their cost cutting right onto the back of the consumer.
> And frankly, I may have already chosen never to give American Honda
> another dime of my business, just on general principle. We'll see.
>
> This story isn't over yet. The fat lady has yet to sing. We'll see
> what is the ultimate outcome. For over 25 years my family and I have
> bought Hondas (and most recently an Acura, an MDX) from one single
> dealership, and have had all the service done at that dealership, on the
> factory schedule or more. Now is the time for this dealership to step
> up to the plate and pursue this aggressively. They're a good
> dealership, at least down in the weeds where it counts. We'll see how
> upper management addresses my concerns.
>
> Interesting postscript: as I discussed this with the dealership's
> service manager, he told me that he had an 03 Honda truck where the
> transmission failed exactly as mine did. He, too, asked Honda for help;
> they denied him, completely. Did I mention this was the DEALERSHIP
> SERVICE MANAGER?
My 02 Ody transmission also failed, at almost the same mileage. Fortunately
for me, it was both under the Certified warranty and the free replacement
period, so all I lost was a week of use. The new/reman tranny was better
than the original ever was, and shifted perfectly until 165,000 miles when
an idiot totaled it. Sorry you got caught out of pocket.
I had another expensive problem (A/C) in that car and wrote a nice, detailed
letter to Honda of America and they intervened. That might be the old days,
but you could try. You've owned more Hondas than I did when I wrote the
letter.
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:23 am
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <EGd9o.15534$st2.6277@newsfe09.iad>,
"MG" <rebore78052@mypacks.net> wrote:
> My 02 Ody transmission also failed, at almost the same mileage. Fortunately
> for me, it was both under the Certified warranty and the free replacement
> period, so all I lost was a week of use. The new/reman tranny was better
> than the original ever was, and shifted perfectly until 165,000 miles when
> an idiot totaled it. Sorry you got caught out of pocket.
Not yet I haven't. It's in the hands of the dealership general manager,
who sympathizes with me to the point of pursuing it with Honda.
If I'm out of pocket, I hope it's nowhere near $3400.
But you've given me great hope for the replacement.
Question: did your replacement also include a new control computer?
That's American Honda's story of why it's such an expensive repair. I
thought maybe they were just padding things to recoup that 25%.
Tegger?
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 5:23 pm
From: Dave Garrett
In article <elmop-2CC95D.08322213082010@reserved-multicast-range-not-
delegated.example.com>, elmop@nastydesigns.com says...
[yet another Honda auto tranny shits the bed]
> This story isn't over yet. The fat lady has yet to sing. We'll see
> what is the ultimate outcome. For over 25 years my family and I have
> bought Hondas (and most recently an Acura, an MDX) from one single
> dealership, and have had all the service done at that dealership, on the
> factory schedule or more. Now is the time for this dealership to step
> up to the plate and pursue this aggressively. They're a good
> dealership, at least down in the weeds where it counts. We'll see how
> upper management addresses my concerns.
>
> Interesting postscript: as I discussed this with the dealership's
> service manager, he told me that he had an 03 Honda truck where the
> transmission failed exactly as mine did. He, too, asked Honda for help;
> they denied him, completely. Did I mention this was the DEALERSHIP
> SERVICE MANAGER?
In my experience, a firm but polite letter directly to American Honda's
customer service division from someone who's owned multiple Hondas
exclusively over a period of many years is likely to carry more weight
than a request for a goodwill repair from a dealer.
Email address in the header is valid, if you'd like a copy of the letter
I sent them in mid-2007 that got me a reman tranny for my 99 Accord for
the cost of the labor to install it.
Dave
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 5:31 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <MPG.26cf9df4802af0b398a2d9@208.90.168.18>,
Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote:
> In my experience, a firm but polite letter directly to American Honda's
> customer service division from someone who's owned multiple Hondas
> exclusively over a period of many years is likely to carry more weight
> than a request for a goodwill repair from a dealer.
You just said pretty much what I just heard this afternoon from a friend
of mine who is now a service writer at an Acura dealer, and who was my
service writer at this dealership for many years.
Absent the dealership general manager getting as far as I want, that
will absolutely be the next step. Thanks.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:36 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <Xns9DD2C0868D2D4tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Brake and tranny-fluid changes are NEVER a bad idea.
>
> wish I'd followed a trans fluid change schedule that was MUCH more
> aggressive than what Honda documented for my 02 Odyssey. I'm now facing
> a transmission replacement.
>
> There is exactly zero reason a single owner Honda family van, driven
> around town by a stay at home mom at the rate of around 8000 miles/year,
> should have a complete transmission failure at 73,000 miles.
That's about the same as for 1990(s) era F*rd Exploders. To have this
happen on a Honda is just plain wrong.
Now you know another reason why I never buy the latest 'n greatest...
JT
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 13 2010 8:39 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <MPG.26cf9df4802af0b398a2d9@208.90.168.18>,
> Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote:
>
>> In my experience, a firm but polite letter directly to American Honda's
>> customer service division from someone who's owned multiple Hondas
>> exclusively over a period of many years is likely to carry more weight
>> than a request for a goodwill repair from a dealer.
>
> You just said pretty much what I just heard this afternoon from a friend
> of mine who is now a service writer at an Acura dealer, and who was my
> service writer at this dealership for many years.
>
> Absent the dealership general manager getting as far as I want, that
> will absolutely be the next step. Thanks.
If worse comes to worse... You might consider a JDM replacement.
JT
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