http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda?hl=en
rec.autos.makers.honda@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
* Failing 2002 Odyssey trans - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
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TOPIC: Honda and their legendary failing transmissions (was Re: Fluid change
necessary?)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/d7ab5908150d6a91?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 16 2010 5:25 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <Xns9DD6C478437FFtegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
> I think you're missing something. TSBs ought to be "right there", and easy
> to find.
Oh, I got them. They're not particularly "right there" or easy to find,
but they're not difficult.
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TOPIC: Failing 2002 Odyssey trans
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/ccc6bade08ec0582?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 7:16 am
From: ACAR
On Aug 16, 7:23 pm, Tegger <inva...@example.com> wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
> 8114D4.15355316082...@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com:
>
> > Honda previously offered 25% accommodation on this replacement. I
> > pursued this through my dealership's GM, and Honda has now upped that
> > offer to 50%.
>
> > I could try to chase after this through Honda corporate, but I've
> > decided to fix the car with the offer that's on the table and move on.
>
> > That doesn't mean I'm particularly ecstatic.
>
> The scenarios I personally see most often are either:
> 1) no charge to customer, or
> 2) Honda picks up the part, you pay the dealer's company for the labor.
>
> There appears to me to be a connection between the dealer's relationship
> with Honda, and the sort of support they get from Honda.
>
> --
> Tegger
Also some connection with the dealer's relationship with the customer.
I bring my cars into the dealership for some inexpensive service item
on an annual basis just so they can put me down as a steady customer.
Makes a difference when they take your case up the chain.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 7:43 am
From: jim beam
On 08/17/2010 07:16 AM, ACAR wrote:
> On Aug 16, 7:23�pm, Tegger<inva...@example.com> wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
>> 8114D4.15355316082...@reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com:
>>
>>> Honda previously offered 25% accommodation on this replacement. �I
>>> pursued this through my dealership's GM, and Honda has now upped that
>>> offer to 50%.
>>
>>> I could try to chase after this through Honda corporate, but I've
>>> decided to fix the car with the offer that's on the table and move on.
>>
>>> That doesn't mean I'm particularly ecstatic.
>>
>> The scenarios I personally see most often are either:
>> 1) no charge to customer, or
>> 2) Honda picks up the part, you pay the dealer's company for the labor.
>>
>> There appears to me to be a connection between the dealer's relationship
>> with Honda, and the sort of support they get from Honda.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> Also some connection with the dealer's relationship with the customer.
> I bring my cars into the dealership for some inexpensive service item
> on an annual basis just so they can put me down as a steady customer.
> Makes a difference when they take your case up the chain.
but that's elmo's point, and his complaint - he /is/ that long time
regular customer. and he's finding the "relationship" element that
worked on the small ticket stuff isn't working.on this big ticket stuff.
the point to note for honda if they ever read this is that if
"investing" in a relationship with them doesn't work, why spend the
premium investing in the first place - just get your car serviced by an
independent. that would mean lower revenue and lower repeat business
and reputation damage, with repercussions for years - all because some
bean counter wants to save a buck today and is dumb enough to have
chosen a guy who has a voice that can cause that damage.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 11:31 am
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article
<037f6321-2fea-4867-b362-12d4998461c6@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > There appears to me to be a connection between the dealer's relationship
> > with Honda, and the sort of support they get from Honda.
> >
> > --
> > Tegger
>
> Also some connection with the dealer's relationship with the customer.
> I bring my cars into the dealership for some inexpensive service item
> on an annual basis just so they can put me down as a steady customer.
> Makes a difference when they take your case up the chain.
I have 25 years of service records on many cars, most of which were
bought at this very dealership. I also have some great stories about
American Honda's legendary, and now former, goodwill program. I used to
tell those stories left and right. American Honda never let the
customer have a reason to go elsewhere.
And yet, in this econonmy 50% was all the accommodation anyone could
come up with for me. And the dealership GM flat out told me that that
was all anyone could expect in this day and age, that Honda would never
go beyond that at all.
Honda pays for the part and customer pays labor? That would have been
$1200 on me, the remainder on Honda--and that was never on the table, at
all. I'm $2266 plus tax out of pocket with this 50% accommodation.
I remember the days when Honda bought the part if I bought the labor.
Those days appear to be long gone.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 11:39 am
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <7sednVfuO6O4PffRnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> but that's elmo's point, and his complaint - he /is/ that long time
> regular customer. and he's finding the "relationship" element that
> worked on the small ticket stuff isn't working.on this big ticket stuff.
Actually, I firmly believe that as of two years ago, when Honda severely
curtailed their goodwill program, even the small ticket stuff is gone.
Here's a story: one local dealership, not my regular one, has a superb
program whereby they themselves extend the warranty to 7/100 as long as
you do the scheduled maintenance with them. That even includes a loaner
if you're not waiting. This goes for new AND certified used cars.
I always figured that was a marketing gimmick--that they were simply
codifying, in writing with the buyer, what happens when you invoke
Honda's goodwill program. Get the car serviced here, and as a regular
customer you're automatically at the top of the list for goodwill
consideration.
I figured that I would never need that--because I've always gotten the
same general consideration from my dealer on a handshake basis.
Now the goodwill program is all but dead, and my dealer doesn't seem too
worried about it. BUT: this other dealer (which is now closer to me
since my regular dealer moved) STILL has this extended warranty program
for new and used cars that they sell.
So either this other dealership has a better relationship with American
Honda, or else they've sucked it up and are eating more of the extended
warranty repairs themselves.
Either way, if I buy another Honda, I'm going to buy it from this other
dealer and invoke the extended warranty. The dealership I've been going
to for nigh on 30 years has, without a doubt, lost my business. I hate
to see that, but it's the reality. They and American Honda have taken a
long time loyal customer and have spent the energy to stop my inertial
movement to my original dealer and drive me over to another dealer, at
the very least, and possibly to another manufacturer, at the very most.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 5:38 pm
From: Grumpy AuContraire
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article
> <037f6321-2fea-4867-b362-12d4998461c6@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> There appears to me to be a connection between the dealer's relationship
>>> with Honda, and the sort of support they get from Honda.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>> Also some connection with the dealer's relationship with the customer.
>> I bring my cars into the dealership for some inexpensive service item
>> on an annual basis just so they can put me down as a steady customer.
>> Makes a difference when they take your case up the chain.
>
> I have 25 years of service records on many cars, most of which were
> bought at this very dealership. I also have some great stories about
> American Honda's legendary, and now former, goodwill program. I used to
> tell those stories left and right. American Honda never let the
> customer have a reason to go elsewhere.
>
> And yet, in this econonmy 50% was all the accommodation anyone could
> come up with for me. And the dealership GM flat out told me that that
> was all anyone could expect in this day and age, that Honda would never
> go beyond that at all.
>
> Honda pays for the part and customer pays labor? That would have been
> $1200 on me, the remainder on Honda--and that was never on the table, at
> all. I'm $2266 plus tax out of pocket with this 50% accommodation.
>
> I remember the days when Honda bought the part if I bought the labor.
> Those days appear to be long gone.
Yep... Time to consider another manufacturer.
As an aside, Honda hybrid batteries are now failing well before the
expected lifetime and Honda is using software patches that in turn
increase reliance on the small engine thus driving down mpg.
So, I guess the "suck it up" time has arrived...
JT
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Aug 17 2010 5:01 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <5padndH_mOg_gPbRnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote:
> > I remember the days when Honda bought the part if I bought the labor.
> > Those days appear to be long gone.
>
>
> Yep... Time to consider another manufacturer.
>
> As an aside, Honda hybrid batteries are now failing well before the
> expected lifetime and Honda is using software patches that in turn
> increase reliance on the small engine thus driving down mpg.
>
> So, I guess the "suck it up" time has arrived...
Absolutely. I read that article about the hybrid batteries yesterday;
it was in the LA Times. If anyone wants a PDF of that, post your
request here.
And I came to exactly the same conclusion you did: Honda is using
software patches on their hybrid systems in order to turn them
into....30mpg gasoline cars. This prevents Honda from having to pay out
on battery warranty claims. The warranty on those batteries is 10
years/150K miles. So, the software fix to prevent the trouble code from
happening, at the expense of forcing the driver to use more gas, is
hugely beneficial to Honda. Take the cost of the problem and shift it
to the end user--hmmm, I'm seeing a pattern here...
Hey, Honda--it's time you fired all the General Motors people and put
the Honda engineers back in charge, like you had it in the 80s and early
90s.
This hybrid battery situation, on top of my transmission situation, has
absolutely closed the door on an era in my life. Not only is Honda no
longer the automatic assumption to buy, it's now the automatic
assumption of "they're going to screw my by making me pay for their bad
decisions, deficient engineering, and cost cutting programs".
(Did I just say "Honda" and "deficient engineering" in the same
sentence? Can someone please look out the window and look for flying
boulders? Is that the sun setting in the east?)
Why would I spend huge amounts of my hard-earned money that way?
Three and a half years ago, I got a company car. My choice was Malibu
or Prius. Sight unseen, having never even sat in one, I chose Prius.
And Toyota has rewarded me for that choice. That thing, built in Japan,
has been the model of trouble-free. So far, Honda has made it very easy
for me to walk into the Toyota dealer to spend time investigating how
I'm going to spend lots and lots of money for a transportation device.
Shame on you, Honda. You will ultimately fail, ultimately become known
as "just another Chrysler" in your quest for short-term profits at the
expense of the customer and keeping him satisfied (and just plain
keeping him). One day you'll wake up broke and drunk in the gutter,
with no friends and a dog pissing on you, and you'll wonder how you got
there.
Don't wonder very hard.
But it's not too late. It's not that you made mistakes so much as how
you recover from those mistakes. Fall on your sword, Honda. Bow down
to us as deeply as you can, apologize profusely, and make good on your
promises and your reputation for fine engineering and taking care of the
customer.
Absent that, fuck off and die.
(Do I sound bitter?)
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