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* Worth Paying for one more rotation? - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/1e4ae2db420be1ee?hl=en
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TOPIC: Worth Paying for one more rotation?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/t/1e4ae2db420be1ee?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 21 2011 9:28 pm
From: jim beam
On 06/21/2011 09:18 AM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:eIOdnZY69qbuL53TnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 06/21/2011 07:51 AM, Tegger wrote:
>>> Paladin<gunslinger@1975.net> wrote in
>>> news:itq6c4$mgr$1@news.albasani.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shoot, there's the dreaded yellow flag-- backing it down past 150 mph
>>>> now. Good damn thing my tires are so grippy...only the inside two are
>>>> contacting the pavement as I make this tight turn...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And if you haven't rotated your tires, you're enjoying maximum contact
>>> patch on those two! Good for a few more MPH, for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> why do people trivialize this? traction is a safety thing much more
>> than a "racing" thing. doesn't anyone want to /not/ rear-end the car
>> that can stop faster than you?
>>
>>
>
>
> I think you're overreacting just a little bit.
>
>
i don't think you're reacting enough. rotation is an anachronistic
dogma left over from the days of bias ply - just like 3k mile oil changes.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2011 11:53 am
From: "Bluto"
Beg to differ sir.
ABS is great but you still need driver skill and competence to control the
car in an emergency braking situation. During the winter, there is at least
one news story about drivers in emergency situations, loosing control and
finding ditches alongside the road.
"jim beam" wrote in message
news:vJadnay6fNKhVJ3TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
On 06/21/2011 09:22 AM, Tegger wrote:
> News<News@Group.Name> wrote in news:y72dnT1-
> g6uwL53TnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 6/20/2011 9:06 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article<Xns9F0ACF45AA6AFtegger@208.90.168.18>,
>>> Tegger<invalid@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> i'll take the longer survival life of the driver thanks. rotation
>>>>> ruins traction and braking control because it reduces the amount of
>>>>> actual rubber contacting the pavement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have some pretty odd ideas, sir.
>>>
>>> ...ideas which BMW put into writing and practice some time ago, for the
>>> same reasons jim outlines.
>>>
>>> There is no tire rotation for BMW vehicles.
>>
>>
>> Some of which use different tire sizes and profiles front and rear.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> I'm guessing BMW is expecting its owners to take their cars to 10/10ths
> regularly.
b.s. bmw's break if you actually /do/ drive them hard. ask my buddy
with the m3 and three new subframes.
> Few daily-driver Honda owners would do that unless they're young
> and/or ricers. And when you're that close to the limit, inexperience and
> incompetence is more likely to result in crashes than some small and
> temporary reduction in contact-patch.
the factor common to all drivers, irrespective of "inexperience" or
"incompetence" is emergency braking. and with abs control, driver
competence is simply not a factor.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2011 1:00 pm
From: "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
In article <YISdnbKEjdePp5_TnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Bluto" <yeager@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Beg to differ sir.
>
> ABS is great but you still need driver skill and competence to control the
> car in an emergency braking situation. During the winter, there is at least
> one news story about drivers in emergency situations, loosing control and
> finding ditches alongside the road.
That's because no amount of control can change the physics of "you were
going way too fast for conditions".
That Jackass guy got burned to a toasty crisp because you can't make a
sudden 45 degree turn even in a Porsche when it's going 110mph, I don't
care what the ABS says.
Turning means stopping, and if stopping is limited, so is turning--and
if you're going WAY too fast on the slick stuff, you may be turning at
the limits of your adhesion to the road--but if the forward vector is
WAY longer than the sideways vector, you're going to end up in the ditch.
AWD, 4WD--no, morons, it doesn't mean you can stop/turn any better than
anyone else.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2011 4:52 pm
From: jim beam
On 06/22/2011 11:53 AM, Bluto wrote:
> "jim beam" wrote in message
> news:vJadnay6fNKhVJ3TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
> On 06/21/2011 09:22 AM, Tegger wrote:
>> News<News@Group.Name> wrote in news:y72dnT1-
>> g6uwL53TnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>>
>>> On 6/20/2011 9:06 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>> In article<Xns9F0ACF45AA6AFtegger@208.90.168.18>,
>>>> Tegger<invalid@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> i'll take the longer survival life of the driver thanks. rotation
>>>>>> ruins traction and braking control because it reduces the amount of
>>>>>> actual rubber contacting the pavement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You have some pretty odd ideas, sir.
>>>>
>>>> ...ideas which BMW put into writing and practice some time ago, for the
>>>> same reasons jim outlines.
>>>>
>>>> There is no tire rotation for BMW vehicles.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of which use different tire sizes and profiles front and rear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm guessing BMW is expecting its owners to take their cars to 10/10ths
>> regularly.
>
> b.s. bmw's break if you actually /do/ drive them hard. ask my buddy
> with the m3 and three new subframes.
>
>
>> Few daily-driver Honda owners would do that unless they're young
>> and/or ricers. And when you're that close to the limit, inexperience and
>> incompetence is more likely to result in crashes than some small and
>> temporary reduction in contact-patch.
>
> the factor common to all drivers, irrespective of "inexperience" or
> "incompetence" is emergency braking. and with abs control, driver
> competence is simply not a factor.
>
>
> Beg to differ sir.
>
> ABS is great but you still need driver skill and competence to control
> the car in an emergency braking situation. During the winter, there is
> at least one news story about drivers in emergency situations, loosing
> control and finding ditches alongside the road.
>
ass posting is a real pain in the top - please don't.
as elmo says, abs can't help you outperform available traction. but it
can help my grandmother effectively /stop/ standing on the brake long
after she's starting to slide and thus retain some chance of control.
why the government sees fit to save the incapable from themselves with
things like abs is something you need to take up with your
representatives [but if you actually want to be heard, be prepared to
hand over the same or more then the oilco lobbyists who encourage
anything that adds to a vehicles weight and/or fuel consumption].
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2011 7:34 pm
From: "Bluto"
Mr. Beam, my posts are on the top when I reply, don't know what the
newsgroup does after. Guess I don't post enough to be an expert like you
are. Oh well, we all can't be experts.
ass posting is a real pain in the top - please don't.
as elmo says, abs can't help you outperform available traction. but it
can help my grandmother effectively /stop/ standing on the brake long
after she's starting to slide and thus retain some chance of control.
why the government sees fit to save the incapable from themselves with
things like abs is something you need to take up with your
representatives [but if you actually want to be heard, be prepared to
hand over the same or more then the oilco lobbyists who encourage
anything that adds to a vehicles weight and/or fuel consumption].
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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